Jerry, might I suggest reading "The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins: Why the evidence of evolution reveals a universe without design. I did, several times (this is an all time favorite with creationists and ID people alike). I quote him often. Dawkins is so extreme (and honest) that it is easy to refute him. I have every book he has ever written. I bet many of his sales are to creationists.
Jerry Bergman
JoinedPosts by Jerry Bergman
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JW scientist banned from Institute's WebSite because of Creationistic Views
by GermanXJW inrecently, dr. wolf-ekkehard loennig, a jw working in a leading position at the gene-science-department at the max-planck-institute, has been banned from the institute's website for spreading his view about evolution.
he promotes the so called "intelligents design".
max-planck-institute calles this creationism in disguise.
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229
JW scientist banned from Institute's WebSite because of Creationistic Views
by GermanXJW inrecently, dr. wolf-ekkehard loennig, a jw working in a leading position at the gene-science-department at the max-planck-institute, has been banned from the institute's website for spreading his view about evolution.
he promotes the so called "intelligents design".
max-planck-institute calles this creationism in disguise.
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Jerry Bergman
I do have a problem with an overly literalistic interpretation of scripture that seeks to validate the Universe’s origin as it was imagined by a human some thousands of years ago, even if this requires selective vision and brute force. an overly literalistic interpretation of scripture I take an historical position, not a literalistic position as do most creationists. that seeks to validate the Universe’s origin as it was imagined by a human some thousands of years ago It is rather hard to accept Christianity without believing God had some roll in the creation of life and the universe is it not??
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JW scientist banned from Institute's WebSite because of Creationistic Views
by GermanXJW inrecently, dr. wolf-ekkehard loennig, a jw working in a leading position at the gene-science-department at the max-planck-institute, has been banned from the institute's website for spreading his view about evolution.
he promotes the so called "intelligents design".
max-planck-institute calles this creationism in disguise.
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Jerry Bergman
Must reading (I am half way through the book)!! Below is a review from a WebSite on science and such The extraordinary story of why fewer and fewer scientists are atheists " God is dead" -- or so scientists used to tell you. For decades, religion and science have been regarded as mutually incompatible. But little by little, that is changing -- as the data that scientists collect about physics, biochemistry, genetics, information theory and neuroscience contains ever more compelling evidence that only a Designer could have made life possible. In By Design: Science and the Search for God, prize winning science writer Larry Witham tells the whole fascinating story. Witham explains how scientists are coming to realize that materialist "laws" of evolution are insufficient for explaining the subtleties of how life developed -- and how cutting-edge research now points inexorably to the fact that life was brought about through fine-tuning by a careful Planner. He explores two key movements involved in this revolutionary development: the "science and religion dialogue," which stretches from the laboratories of Nobel Prize winners to the halls of the Vatican; and the intelligent design movement, which has sent chills up the spines of the Darwinian ideologues in the scientific and public education establishments by successfully reviving a natural theology of design
Witham profiles some of the courageous scientists who have dared to question science's great atheist dogma and follow the evidence of God's existence. He summarizes the scientific developments that have made this dramatic new dialogue possible. In the process, he shows in By Design how what was once a battleground between faith and science is becoming a meeting ground. Larry Witham reveals how scientists have begun realizing that God exists:- Key discoveries that shook the Darwinian scientific establishment to its foundations
- How some of Darwin's most basic ideas, although taken for granted by scientists worldwide, actually remain unproven
- Fred Hoyle, the famous British astrophysicist: the scientific discovery that he admitted years later had seriously shaken his atheism
- Public schools: how they have dropped the ball completely and given up teaching accurately about evolution and creation
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JW scientist banned from Institute's WebSite because of Creationistic Views
by GermanXJW inrecently, dr. wolf-ekkehard loennig, a jw working in a leading position at the gene-science-department at the max-planck-institute, has been banned from the institute's website for spreading his view about evolution.
he promotes the so called "intelligents design".
max-planck-institute calles this creationism in disguise.
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Jerry Bergman
Check that URL I posted in my previous message. It does a fine job showing some of the transitional types that have been found in the fossil record, as well as explaining genetic anomolies that could only have been caused by evolution. Special creation would not have resulted in a mutant, non-functioning "Vitamin C" gene in primates/humans, for example. I did. These concerns have all been explained fairly well and the explinations for them would be more commonly known if the other side was more freely available.
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JW scientist banned from Institute's WebSite because of Creationistic Views
by GermanXJW inrecently, dr. wolf-ekkehard loennig, a jw working in a leading position at the gene-science-department at the max-planck-institute, has been banned from the institute's website for spreading his view about evolution.
he promotes the so called "intelligents design".
max-planck-institute calles this creationism in disguise.
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Jerry Bergman
Now extend "microevolution" over huge time periods and you end up with "macroevolution." Completely untrue as has been well documented (I am working on a paper on this).
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229
JW scientist banned from Institute's WebSite because of Creationistic Views
by GermanXJW inrecently, dr. wolf-ekkehard loennig, a jw working in a leading position at the gene-science-department at the max-planck-institute, has been banned from the institute's website for spreading his view about evolution.
he promotes the so called "intelligents design".
max-planck-institute calles this creationism in disguise.
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Jerry Bergman
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution http://talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/ Fine. Now read the other side please! (That is those posts that have not been banned or censored by those who do not want you to read the other side, the side that you will not normally get in the public schools) PS: the title of this thread is JW scientist banned from Institute's website because of Creationistic Views. And many on here may feel that banning his ideas is a good idea. Many do not want to read the other side and do not want others to read the other side as they claim it may confuse them.
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229
JW scientist banned from Institute's WebSite because of Creationistic Views
by GermanXJW inrecently, dr. wolf-ekkehard loennig, a jw working in a leading position at the gene-science-department at the max-planck-institute, has been banned from the institute's website for spreading his view about evolution.
he promotes the so called "intelligents design".
max-planck-institute calles this creationism in disguise.
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Jerry Bergman
Shall I cut and paste the nasty comments YOU make? Honestly Jerry! Or is that; dishonestly, Jerry? Yes please do. I have not made what I consider nasty comments, only observations and opinions. If I am wrong please correct me.
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229
JW scientist banned from Institute's WebSite because of Creationistic Views
by GermanXJW inrecently, dr. wolf-ekkehard loennig, a jw working in a leading position at the gene-science-department at the max-planck-institute, has been banned from the institute's website for spreading his view about evolution.
he promotes the so called "intelligents design".
max-planck-institute calles this creationism in disguise.
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Jerry Bergman
A few thoughts on terms in this debate: SCIENCE: (for lack of a better contextual definition) is our best efforts to establish verifiable cause-and-effect relationships for all observable phenomenon. Such determination is generally reached using one of three basic investigative processes. 1) Bacon's empirical science (physical observation, experiment). 2) Descartes (Euclid) rational science (intuition, deductive logic). 3) Huygens (Newton) hypothetico-deductive science (conjecture, tested against observation). Each has its place and its value -- as well as providing different degrees of certainty as to the relative certainty of its conclusions. Bacon's empirical scientific method, requiring physical repeatability, is by far the most restrictive and provides the highest relative of scientific certainty. This is the ONE science taught in most introductory science curricula and as such, is the "default" definition understood and accepted by the public when the term "science" is applied to a conclusion without any further clarifying modifier. This is also the definition of science cited by evolutionists as sufficient to exclude all non-evolutionary alternative interpretations of the evidence from classroom consideration. However, there is NO evidence establishing macroevolution that meets this recognized and rigorous requirement. Darwinism is a hypothetico-deductive science conclusion -- and hence, does not carry the same high degree of relative certainty as the public have been led to believe. EVOLUTION: is often only poorly (imprecisely) defined. On a scientific cause-and-effect basis evolution is far more than 'change in gene frequencies', 'genetic change over time', etc., etc. After presuming some FIRST theoretical living cell, the cause of evolution is the progressive appearance of the necessary DNA coded instructions in this original gene pool. No new protein (organ or feature) appears that does not FIRST appear as genetic code. To scientifically establish macroevolution, one must be able to explain (demonstrate) the ability of random mutation and natural selection to cumulatively add new, biologically useful, genetic codes to a functional gene pool. This has not yet been done. Indeed, many hundreds of thousands of experiments have been conducted attempting to verify this hypothesis, but resulting in a decline, rather than addition, of useful information in the gene pool studied. Macroevolution may, or may not be true. But thus far it has not been established as "scientific" to the compelling level of certainty associated with "default" empirical science. Darwinists present many popularly promoted conclusions or speculative possibilities -- these supported only by "Just-So Story" scenarios and, as such, do not provide any example of the (default) scientific evidence requested. Here I am simply re-examine the common apparent trust that macroevolution indeed has proper scientific credentials. It has been well said that "Where controversy exists, something is wrong" . Hopefully the above might prompt some to examine the semantic, rather than scientific, basis for this long-troubling dichotomy -- and perhaps this in the future will help correct the present widespread misunderstanding in this area.
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mass murder by a Witness
by Jerry Bergman inhas anyone read the book jungle gods by carl von hoffman?
it tells of a watchtower convert who decided that he needed to start armageddon on his own and ended up killing over a hundred persons before he was caught.
it is now long out of print but i found several copies using addall.com (a search engine) and on abe.com.
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Jerry Bergman
Earnest This is the Watchtowers side. The book contains the other side. I have concluded that the book is as a whole more accurate, although the Watchtower's side helps us to put the whole event in perspective. Other historians have evaluated the account and side with the book Jungle Gods. At any rate, it is an excellent book and as far as I know the author just reported the facts as accurately as possible.
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JW scientist banned from Institute's WebSite because of Creationistic Views
by GermanXJW inrecently, dr. wolf-ekkehard loennig, a jw working in a leading position at the gene-science-department at the max-planck-institute, has been banned from the institute's website for spreading his view about evolution.
he promotes the so called "intelligents design".
max-planck-institute calles this creationism in disguise.
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Jerry Bergman
as stated above:
the ususal definition is: animals belong to different species if they cannot produce fertile offspring in nature.
This definition does not work today. We now know that there are far too many problems with it, such as many animals from clearly different species can interbreed. A whole web site exists on this (run by creationists by the way)